What do you guys think of this game?

[Sailor Enlil]

http://atp.manga.sk/games/o3/o3.htm

I came across this game (a Bishoujo/Visual Novel type game, not unlike the Japanese dating/romance simulators) while browsing one of my favorite anime websites, and tried it out. For a Visual Novel game written in english (and by a small freelance group), it's really interesting. One thing to note is that unlike most of the commercially available games of its kind (which are commonly known as Hentai games, but officially called Eroge (a contraction for "Erotic Game"), this one has no adult content (though the developers claim it's not for young children) and would be classified as a Renai game, and in my opinion, is one game that can introduce newcomers to this genere of games (Bishoujo/Visual Novel). Also, this game is freeware, so go ahead and give it a spin, and post your thoughts.

[Dave III]

You know, I've never actually played a dating sim game. A lack of erotic content makes me curious enough about this one (and if I like it, to look for more of these "ren'ai" games) to download it and give it a shot.

[Lunarhound]

Most good dating sims actually don't have "adult" content. It's just that companies that localize games in this genre don't usually bother to translate non-hentai titles into English, because they assume they won't sell.

As for the one you linked to, I tend to be wary of any games in this genre that were originally written in English. Most are simply created by Renai fans who've decided that because they enjoy playing these things, they'd be good at making them. As a general rule, the writing and grammar are horrendous, the characters are flat and two dimensional, the stories and situations are so sappy that they're not the least bit believable, and the way characters react make little or no sense. Playing a game like this in which characters don't react realistically to choices that you make ruins it completely.

I really wish someone would try making games in this style that didn't revolve around dating. The "talk your way through various situations and try to influence people" model could work for a lot of other situations.

I'll give it a shot, though. It's free, so it can't hurt.

[Lunarhound]

Okay, so I gave it a try.

First of all, anyone who downloads this should be aware that there is sex. The fact that it's not "hentai" doesn't mean it's free of sexual content, it just means it's not hardcore pornography. Sex happens, but it's not the focus of the game. It's presented tastefully, and doesn't go into the gory physical details or shove nasty pictures in the player's face.

Second, are you sure this was originally created in English? It doesn't read that way. It's not that it's loaded with engrish or anything. It's pretty understandable. But it's definitely not written well. It just feels like a mediocre translation. If it was originally created in English, then whoever made it is in serious need of a good writer. The story lurking beneath the bad writing seems to be pretty good so far, but since games like this are essentially interractive novels and and large portions of them consist of nothing but looking at still images and reading text, bad writing (or bad translation) can completely kill them. This one, in particular, is hurt by it because the character telling the story is obviously trying to communicate very powerful emotions, but the words come out sounding stiff and awkward. There are many, many small details like descriptions of the smell or texture of a certain kind of soap, or the way a particular food tastes. These are probably meant to help the player feel a connection with the hero and what is happening to him, but because they're communicated so clumsily, they just grate on the nerves.

I've played a few games like this, and I always wish I knew how to get into them and alter the text. I don't claim to be the best writer on the planet, but even as I'm reading each line, I can easily think of much better ways to say the same thing.

[Sailor Enlil]

Okay, so I gave it a try.

First of all, anyone who downloads this should be aware that there is sex. The fact that it's not "hentai" doesn't mean it's free of sexual content, it just means it's not hardcore pornography. Sex happens, but it's not the focus of the game. It's presented tastefully, and doesn't go into the gory physical details or shove nasty pictures in the player's face.

Well, I'd say no more graphic than a Judith Krantz novel (I've read her novel "I'll Take Manhattan" and watched the TV miniseries, and the novel was much more detailed in the sex scenes than the miniseries). i.e. any amount of sex is implicit and only in text (none of the pictures used in the game are explicit; the most graphic there is is in a shower scene, but it's covered up in the right places, like in ads of a fashion magazine).

Second, are you sure this was originally created in English? It doesn't read that way. It's not that it's loaded with engrish or anything. It's pretty understandable. But it's definitely not written well. It just feels like a mediocre translation. If it was originally created in English, then whoever made it is in serious need of a good writer. The story lurking beneath the bad writing seems to be pretty good so far, but since games like this are essentially interractive novels and and large portions of them consist of nothing but looking at still images and reading text, bad writing (or bad translation) can completely kill them. This one, in particular, is hurt by it because the character telling the story is obviously trying to communicate very powerful emotions, but the words come out sounding stiff and awkward. There are many, many small details like descriptions of the smell or texture of a certain kind of soap, or the way a particular food tastes. These are probably meant to help the player feel a connection with the hero and what is happening to him, but because they're communicated so clumsily, they just grate on the nerves.

I did mention this game was created by a small time freelance group, so I wouldn't expect stellar work at the level of a big time developer like Electronic Arts (or better yet their former subsidiary Origin Systems; other than these dating sims, the best storytelling I've ever seen in any game series was the Wing Commander series by Chris Roberts of the said developer house).

I've played a few games like this, and I always wish I knew how to get into them and alter the text. I don't claim to be the best writer on the planet, but even as I'm reading each line, I can easily think of much better ways to say the same thing.

The maker's website is here http://atp.manga.sk if you're interested, but I can't seem to find contact information, and from some of the pages, it seems some of the group's members are non-english speaking people (Slovak was mentioned), so that could be a factor here.

[Fayt]

I just don't see the point in playing a "dating sim" game, myself. I mean, really... what's the purpose?

...Unless it's to teach guys how not to act like morons when trying to impress a girl on the first date...

[Lunarhound]

Well, I'd say no more graphic than a Judith Krantz novel (I've read her novel "I'll Take Manhattan" and watched the TV miniseries, and the novel was much more detailed in the sex scenes than the miniseries). i.e. any amount of sex is implicit and only in text (none of the pictures used in the game are explicit; the most graphic there is is in a shower scene, but it's covered up in the right places, like in ads of a fashion magazine).

I believe that's more or less what I said. No, the sex isn't explicit at all, but anyone who might be considering trying it out still needs to know that it's there.

I did mention this game was created by a small time freelance group, so I wouldn't expect stellar work at the level of a big time developer like Electronic Arts (or better yet their former subsidiary Origin Systems; other than these dating sims, the best storytelling I've ever seen in any game series was the Wing Commander series by Chris Roberts of the said developer house).

You don't need to be a big-time developer like EA to have decent writing. Graphics, yes. Sound, possibly. Writing, absolutely not. All you need in order to write for a game is a keyboard, and someone who knows how not to sound like crap.

I just don't see the point in playing a "dating sim" game, myself. I mean, really... what's the purpose?

...Unless it's to teach guys how not to act like morons when trying to impress a girl on the first date...

The purpose is the same as it is in any story-focused game. To see what happens, and play a part in the outcome.

You probably have a skewed idea of what a "dating sim" can be. The one linked to in this post, for example, doesn't have much to do with dating at all. It's about a guy trying to manage his relationship with a rather strange and unstable girlfriend while at the same time, dealing with lingering feelings for his ex. "Love Sim" might be a more accurate term, but even that doesn't always apply. Romance tends to dominate this genre in the same way that fantasy dominates RPG's, but it's not the only thing out there. They're essentially interractive stories. Some of them are very good stories, though you'll usually have to get past the so-so translation in order to appreciate them.

[Sailor Enlil]

I just don't see the point in playing a "dating sim" game, myself. I mean, really... what's the purpose?

...Unless it's to teach guys how not to act like morons when trying to impress a girl on the first date...

Well if you're curious about a full-fledged dating sim like Konami's Tokimeki Memorial series (where the main activity is taking a girl out on a date, hence among the game's main features are the phonebook and calendar), that's pretty much the name of the game - how to be the perfect gentleman (though Tokimeki Memorial throws in a lot of other factors, such as RPG-like stats, which will make your character likeable to a particular girl, so they have to be taken into consideration). Oh and not all games are abouit a guy looking for a girlfriend - it's also the other way around (like Konami's Tokimeki Memorial Girls' Side).

A Visual Novel (which is a far more common game) is not so much geared towards that. Instead, playing a Visual Novel game is more like reading a Choose Your Own Adventure book, and it's "objective" is to get to any of the Happy Endings (which usually means getting together with the girl), by making the right choices when the times come.

[Lunarhound]

Ah, Tokimeki Memorial... I've wanted to play something in that series for years. I don't suppose there's some sort of super-secret English translation that I don't know about.

[Sailor Enlil]

Ah, Tokimeki Memorial... I've wanted to play something in that series for years. I don't suppose there's some sort of super-secret English translation that I don't know about.

Well, there have been some "underground' attempts at making english patches for that game, but no actual results have been made.

However, there are quite a number of english translated walkthroughs available to help out (most of them from gamefaqs, plus a few independent ones like here http://www.endtears.net/tokimemo/index.html ), and actually, I have played and finished Tokimeki Memorial 1 (got all the girls in the SNES version, and one of them, main girl Shiori Fujisaki, in the Playstation version) with a lot of help from those walkthroughs (plus it also helped to use an Excel Worksheet formatted like the phonebook and stat sheet, and the Outlook Calendar to replicate the schedules for the dates and other events like the girls' birthdays and holidays).

[Fayt]

Ahhh... I see. Yeah - my initial impression of "dating-sim" games was that of something lonely geeks who live in their parents' basements would play, rather than (or because they can't) go out and meet real people. I gotcha now. Thanks for the info.

[Sailor Enlil]

Well I'm sure you know the old saying "Don't try this at home"? Like all games, you really don't wanna try those things in real life, especially these dating sims. Eg. here's one scenario from Tokimeki Memorial. You take Shiori Fujisaki (she's the clicheic "Perfect Girl" and "Girl Next Door" combined) on a date at the amusement park and ride the ferris wheel (her favorite ride), and she comments on the nice view. You have a choice of responses from these:
1. Yes it's nice
2. It's too high up here (or something on the negative)
3. I was only looking at your face
Believe it or not, the best answer here is the 3rd one (it will make Shiori blush and stutter, but she'll like it). Now tell me there are lots of girls in real life that would like to hear something like that on a date (particularly if one is not going steady with the girl yet).

[La Vache]

3. I was only looking at your face
Believe it or not, the best answer here is the 3rd one (it will make Shiori blush and stutter, but she'll like it). Now tell me there are lots of girls in real life that would like to hear something like that on a date (particularly if one is not going steady with the girl yet).

LOL. What a thing to say. That would only have me wondering if I had this giant zit or something else totally embarrassing stuck to my face.

Oh, and I tried a bit of this game too. I have to agree with Lunar, the writing puts me off. Very melodramatic in a annoying way. I've never tried a game like this before, so I dl'd this to try and I have to say that if this is a good example of a Visual Novel game then it's not my thing. But then again, I'm not a big fan of romance in books or films anywhere. *hides behind a pillow* I mean, they KISS!
I did like the graphics and set up though...are there 'Visual Novels' without a romantic plot?

[Sailor Enlil]

LOL. What a thing to say. That would only have me wondering if I had this giant zit or something else totally embarrassing stuck to my face.

Hehe well, remember this is in an anime universe, and there's a saying like "everything you know is wrong" (eg. look for the website "Laws of anime" so you'll know what I mean). In the case of Shiori, that reply would imply to her that you think her face is prettier than the view she was looking at (but she's not that vain, unlike the school beauty queen Mira Kagami, who hungrily wants to be compared to every object of beauty you come across on your dates with her, from flowers at the greenhouse to the paintings in the museum to the stars in the planetarium, and even the idol singers at a band performance).

Oh, and I tried a bit of this game too. I have to agree with Lunar, the writing puts me off. Very melodramatic in a annoying way. I've never tried a game like this before, so I dl'd this to try and I have to say that if this is a good example of a Visual Novel game then it's not my thing. But then again, I'm not a big fan of romance in books or films anywhere. *hides behind a pillow* I mean, they KISS!
I did like the graphics and set up though...are there 'Visual Novels' without a romantic plot?

Well like I mentioned, this is a small time freelance group, and some of the members are apparently non-english speaking people (what country is Slovak language from?)
As for visual novels with non-romantic themes there are a few I know of, but all Japanese so far. One is called "Poor Little Bird" where you play the role of a bird (yes an animal) looking for its owner.

[La Vache]

Oh, and I tried a bit of this game too. I have to agree with Lunar, the writing puts me off. Very melodramatic in a annoying way. I've never tried a game like this before, so I dl'd this to try and I have to say that if this is a good example of a Visual Novel game then it's not my thing. But then again, I'm not a big fan of romance in books or films anywhere. *hides behind a pillow* I mean, they KISS!
I did like the graphics and set up though...are there 'Visual Novels' without a romantic plot?

Well like I mentioned, this is a small time freelance group, and some of the members are apparently non-english speaking people
As for visual novels with non-romantic themes there are a few I know of, but all Japanese so far. One is called "Poor Little Bird" where you play the role of a bird (yes an animal) looking for its owner.

Thank you, I will look it up

(what country is Slovak language from?)

I not very wild guess would be Slovakia. Former member of Czechoslovakia. Slovak is a Indo-European language and is in the group of West Slavic languages (together with for example Polish and Czech).

eeeh..maybe that's more than you wanted to know <.<