Games Industry is 'Failing Women'

[Maflash]

I know that feeling, but I get like that when I'm given limited choice. It's not as if you asked for an urban camo PS2 and some men appear to tell you that little feminine hands would be better off with a pink one.

[DavPilky]

Actually, I am aware of the mountain of crap foisted on women. It's been a narrative here at WG, as as have I, since damn near day one at WG. But the PSP, PS2, and DS (all available in pink) are not crap, and they're not foisted. They come in many colors, and no one is telling you which one to buy. This isn't like your "Games for Girls" thing where you're stuck with Barbie's Dream House. The pink systems were realeased with the same marketing as every other colored system. Nobody's trying to tell women that the pink system s for them, and the rest are for boys. Years of conditioning makes us hypersensitive to that, true, but it should make us all the more grateful when something like this comes along without all the gendered marketing. The pink PSP isn't for girls, it just is. Let's be glad for once that they are lettings girls (and boys) pick and choose for themselves what color represents them.

--DP

[Dungeon Keeper]

I can't agree with that. For one, I've never seen anything in pink marketed towards a male of any age. Its always for females. I've made a concious effort to look through comic books stores, sports shops, hardwear and automotive shops, lumber yards and electronic departments to find any indication that the color pink was used for any other target market other than women. All I found a Barbie DVD player in pink, but that was it. Now, for a girl (not the use of the word girl, not woman), a pink Barbie DVD player is fine. But I am not a girl, I am an grown women. And I am more than willing to bet money that no male, boy or man, would buy a pink PS2 or PSP.

If Sony wants to make their line look more aesthetically pleasing to a woman, or anyone else, do not resort to sterotyping what colors are for certain genders. Yes, yes, no one is saying I'm female so all I can buy is the pink one, but seriously, who else could it be targetted for? Men cringe from pink like B-movie vampires recoil from garlic. I've asked the men I hang around with to if they'd by a pink electronics (or role playing dice, or T-shirts, or kitchen appliance, or cars, or sports equipment, etc....) and the answer is a resounding "NO!" They find the color to be a symbol of what is weak, lesser and scornful. A guy in this area with a pink anything is liable to get verbally and/or physically assulted by the 'manly men', and I have been given jelewery, clothes and other things accidently bought by men who are afraid the item was 'too girly', and didn't want to be ridiculed or assulted for having it. Are these guys going to go out and buy a pink PSP if they won't keep goth-style clothing and accessories that is too 'feminine' in their view? I highly doubt it.

These observations made, how can I feel positive about the color? It carries this message that to wear it marks one as a weak, immature and of lesser consideration. At best its patronizing. At worst it makes you an object of contempt. There is no 'choice' to be proud of here. Its a negative stereotype and a faulty and belittling generalization. And if goes further than video games. My mother expressed how happy she was to find clothes that weren't 'post-menopausel pink' for my sister's wedding. My brother-in-law and sister lament how just about everything they want to buy for my 11-month-old neice is innevitable pink, and they worry how this will affect her opnion. "I don't want her to think this is all women and girls can have." my brother-in-law told me. Short of spray painting everything they buy another color, what can they do? There is no choice for them, my mom, or me in many areas. Its pink or nothing, whether we want it or not.

If Sony or any other company wants to make there product more marketable, I already suggested many ways to change the appearance without resorting to pink. I know many people wish their entertainment electronics didn't look like clunky 'altars to technology' in the middle of their dens and living rooms. If the designers and manufactoreurs made the machine more like the rest of the furniture, it would be more appealing to a wider range of people. Especially since the PS2 functions as a DVD/CD player. They could attract people who wanted the system for something other than video games. We saw the sucess of flat screen TVs that hang on the wall like paintings. This would be a much better marketting strategy than any color change.

If you like pink, that is your right. But I don't, and I get very offended when I see companies using it as a marketing stragedy for females. It shows a lack of imagination and sends the message they aren't going to take the time to do anything more for this market than resort to steroetypes.

[Frigo]

Colors that should be banned, punishable by death:
pink
fuchsia
magenta
aqua
---
amber
mahogany
peach

Candidate colors are more than welcome!

[DavPilky]

I can't agree with that. For one, I've never seen anything in pink marketed towards a male of any age. {Its always for females.

The pink PSP isn't marketed towards girls! Point to one ad, one piece of media where it is mentioned or suggested that this device is for girls. That boys will mostly not like it does NOT mean that it is marketted at girls. Marketing is branding, advertising. It takes more than just a color to market. Remember those PSP ads that showed people walkin' down stairs with PSPs strapped on their necks? These people were young and hip and pretty (and of both sexes). THAT'S marketing. Watch a Barbie ad. Who's playing with the toys? Who's doing the voice-over? THAT'S marketing. In both cases, pink is used to further marketining, but by itself it's meaningless. Without context, pink can be nothing more than a color.

See, and this is what's funny about your POV: You're providing ALL the context. You see pink, and immediately think girl. And then are insulted by this.

I don't get this. You say:

I've made a concious effort to look through comic books stores, sports shops, hardwear and automotive shops, lumber yards and electronic departments to find any indication that the color pink was used for any other target market other than women.

But then when a device is made that isn't targetted at all, the pink PSP, you go on and say it's targetted at women. What would it take for you to see something pink and believe it's NOT targeted at girls and women specifically? Boys specifically mentioned in ads for pink product? Hate to burst your bubble, but that'd be targeting boys. Perhaps boys and girls mentioned in the ads? That's still targetting children. Sony's not singling girls out. They just made the damn think pink. YOU did the rest.

And I am more than willing to bet money that no male, boy or man, would buy a pink PS2 or PSP.

I would in a heartbeat. In fact, my GBA is pink. I also spent $120 on Hello Kitty merch (everything was half off!), including pink towels, a toaster with a bow on it, a pink water cooler, pink and purple notebooks, a pink daily planner, and plenty of other asorted knick-knacks, mostly pink. Then there's my avatar. All this and, let me check again here... Yep, I'm still male.

You wanna make something of it?

If Sony wants to make their line look more aesthetically pleasing to a woman, or anyone else, do not resort to sterotyping what colors are for certain genders.

This sums it up perfectly. Sony released a pink system with no associated literature or media. Based solely on the fact that it was pink, you accused Sony of stereotyping. You NEED to refocus your lens of scrutiny here.

--DP

[Dax]

I think there is a bit of sidetracking going on here. The discussion of the pink consoles is all very well but to answer the question of the industry failing women, should we not be talking about the games themselves?

Pink consoles were used as part of the news story to parhaps suggest that the industry is failing women at this attempt to appeal to women, or maybe pink is associated with women - and it's hard to argue that it's not - but there are more serious issues here than the colour of a console.

The women gamers in here are aware of games that they'd enjoy, they know what they like and what they might like etc etc. In my opinion, most of the 'industry failing women' issue stems from a reluctance to market games at women as well as men - to take the risk. Cos there are a lot of women out there that don't consider console/PC 'hardcore' games an option - they stick with the casual games and don't branch out maybe due to a lack of awareness.

Silent Hill has it's next installment being showed off at the mo, but will there me any effort to market it to both genders, or will they just stay in a safe area with the guy gamers dunno, we'll see.

[Maflash]

I dont see how you would have to make an effort to market a horror game to men and women. I mean theres pretty much one point to horror, I can't see how it can be spun different for gender.

[Dax]

Maybe that's a bad example, but there are others - Metal Gear Solid perhaps, that could be a hit with women but there is a male spin in the marketing, and overtly in the games themselves, esp with the last one.

The point is that there are games out there that, gameplay wise, could appeal to women but they're not marketed accordingly.

Fable's also up there to - but that failed with women also cos of the lack of female character as well. As I said earlier, I played it through but there was no female character to empathise with - a negative for me especially when the story didn't hinge on you being a male character (as with Solid Snake). Tenshi also agreed on this point - about lack of female character being a problem.

When you investigate what's actually goin on in games, you discover that they could appeal to more demos than they're aimed at - but the majority of devs or pubs aren't getting this point yet.

[Ehlonna]

DavPilky,

I'm not bothered by anyone releasing a pink game at all. I really, honestly don't care. If I were marketting for that company maybe I would even suggest or support it myself! But, for you to argue that this is not a deliberate attempt to get more women to buy it, I think you know very well that is the main or even only purpose behind releasing this in pink. You know it, everybody knows it. I for one am not bothered by it, people market things toward all kinds of audiences. A color of a toy is not enough to disturb me. But that doesn't mean I don't know why they're doing it. It doesn't matter whether they outright say it or not. Almost never does a company release any kind of specific targetted product idea and say "oh, by the way, we're deliberately targetting X age group of Y gender from Z financial range household". They just release it. Usually common sense tells you the main target audience.

In today's world, pink means targetting females, period. Whether or not they would also grab you in this is not the point. They came out with this planning to sell more of this toy to women, otherwise it's not worth their time to come out with it, is it? If they didn't think it would impact sales, why spend the money doing it?? But come on, don't be silly, you know all this perfectly well.

[Maflash]

Dax, I'd go with you on the characters in the game, but I still think intrest from a womans magazine selling space to them would get more done quicker.

[DavPilky]

But that doesn't mean I don't know why they're doing it. It doesn't matter whether they outright say it or not. Almost never does a company release any kind of specific targetted product idea and say "oh, by the way, we're deliberately targetting X age group of Y gender from Z financial range household". They just release it. Usually common sense tells you the main target audience.

I know very well that they're hoping to get more women to buy the system. But releasing a product a certain segment is more likely to buy is different from marketing.

If I release a tool designed to make household cleaning easier, natually more women would buy it, because women are still more often than not the ones who take care of the house. But am I marketing to women? Not until I put ads on during Oprah, do research to figure out what product names might appeal to women, and yes, put it in colors that appeal to women. Marketing is branding and placement with the intention of grabbing the intention of a selected audience. When the Pink PSP shows up in Cosmo, or Renée Zellwegger's using it in her next comedy-romance, you can tell me it's marketed. But Sony's branding and placement for the pink PSP thus far is the same as it is for every other color. The PSP, in pink or otherwise, is still marketed as sophisticated, sleek, and stylish. It's marketed to people college age and above, and to kids and teens to a lesser degree. I haven't seen much to suggest that Sony's marketing (at least for the systems themselves) is anything but gender neutral.

--DP

[Dungeon Keeper]

I went back to my male friends and asked, again, if they'd buy anything pink. I got one, and only one, "As long as it works, I don't care." The rest were ascewed looks of absolute horror and a resounding , "NO!" But one of them suggested purple would be a color they'd rather buy. He said most of the women he knew liked purple, and so did most of the men he knew. I male in the group admitted purple was his favorite color and he'd happily buy that. So purple would be a color that would appeal to a wider range of people, thus promoting more sales.

Color is a huge part of design and marketting. It always has been and always will be. Certain colors give us instinctual recations. Red, for instance is associated with fire, blood, and excitement. Pink, as everyone I asked pointed out to me, is associated with femininity. Yes, I asked my design profs this question. For better or for worse this color is equated with females, and is industry short hand for things targetted towards girls and women.

But moving on, I agree that games in general have been very poorly marketted towards females. The observation about having no playable female characters in many games is a very valid point. I have played Harvest Moon for many years, and it took forever for the designers to include a female player character.

One thing that really irritates me is the 'alternative costume' feature in some games. Its often just an excuse for some T&A. I loved Silent Hill 3's alternative costumes. They were witty and creative, but in Silent Hill 4, it was ridiculous. The only thing offered were those skimpy outfits for the female characters. I love Silent Hill, but I felt ripped off that I didn't get any costumes I could enjoy. They could've done all sorts of great costumes for Harry: A James Bond Tuxedo (or Tuxedo Mask outfit complete with transformation animation since we had a magic girl costume last game). Army camo. Pajamas with funny slippers. Biker leathers. A tradition kimino. Police riot gear. A coyboy outfit with hat spurs and lasso. Or if you're open-minded enough to let women enjoy sex too, a 'naughty doctor' outfit to macth the skimpy naurse's outfit. I saw one person suggest a Robby the Rabbit outfit, which would have been brilliant. The sexy clothing for just the female characters seemed like such a cop-out. Please, I worked hard to get a good score, I deserve a treat, too.

At the core of the problem is quality, though. As a player in general, I want strong design, intelligent writing, straight-forward controls and well rounded-characters. I want a good game, period. Game designers don't have to have doctrines in litterature and masters degrees in design, but they shold consider the plot of the story, the motivations of the characters and decide the best way to express these things. A little effort goes a long way.

[Calisto]

http://www.gamingnexus.com/Default.aspx ... cle&I=1192

And then...something happened.

I realized who you are.

You are not my friend.

You are not a hip authority figure with money and power, who also just happens to put out video games.

You are a con. You have deceived me with the lure of a stable alternate reality, whiled thousands of dollars from my trusting hands, and crammed me into a demographic box marked "girl".

Yeah, I know you say you can change. Everybody says that when they're faced with a crisis like this. You try to convince people that its not that bad. Well guess what? It is that bad. Its time to stop blindly chasing wild and fantastic pipe dreams and accept the reality that you have overextended yourself to the nth degree. It was in your best interest financially to put out the cheapest possible product, so you did it. Less money towards product, more money towards advertising...it was a worthy formula. But in the process of cornering the market, you forgot one very important thing: the gamers. Gamers, who like me, are poor. Gamers who can see past the PR bullcrap. Gamers who might just get offended if you thrust Barbie McConsole upon us and declare it "hip". You know what whole story about the emperor's new clothes? Well Sony, you're buck naked in the middle of Times Square, and I'm gonna shout it to the world.
Goodbye.

pretty much sums it up

[DavPilky]

Well, I don't care WHAT y'all say, I'd rather my PS2 was pink than black, and I'm not giving up my penis.

--DP

[Dungeon Keeper]

I remember reading a brilliant manifesto on pointlesswasteoftime on how to make video games better. It was incredible insightful and very funny. I'm sorry I don't have the web address, but I'm sure you could still find it if you looked. It tackled just about every negative issue I've had with video games.

But a few other things occured to me that should be included in games:

Please let me pause FMVs. It never fails that the phone rings, the kettle boils or someone needs my undivided attention when the critic plot point is being unvieled through the cinematic. Some games acknowledge this gamer's Murphy's Law, but too many don't. Its a relatively small favour to ask, and I'm sure it wouldn't be must effort at all.

Also, once I have seen an FMV, please let it be available to watch again. I want to show friends these things, and I hate having to have half a dozen saves at key places to be able to share these with them.

And please, do not make me play through the game on Unbelievable Difficult setting for this reward, or for any of the other bonuses like production art. Beating the game once should be enough. If the product is entertaining in itself I will play over and over again.

I am still playing Legacy of Kain: Defiance for the above listed reasons, along with its incredible story, deep, rich characters and wonderful game play, and I love showing people the FMVs and production art to get them interested in the game. I've even given class pressentations on it to try and raise interest for my favourite game. If a product treats their buyer well, that person will happily promote their product for free. Its a well-known marketting princible that a happy client is the best advertising you can have, and the gaming industry should remember this.