Interview with Gary Gygax - RPG Legend

by **Ace_of_Sevens** on Mon Oct 23, 2000 1:54 pm

yes, accuse me of missing the point when you miss my point 
 
silly 
 
I guess I'm gonna just have to tweak your earsies right back 
 
 
My main point? 
 
I was addressing the comments about innate difference that were made in the article by Gary Gygax 
 
I never said that this is about Nurture...in fact the book I mentioned I referenced because it does not fall along the lines of dichotomizing the nature/nurture supposed split 
 
since innate difference was so assumed in the article I thought I'd have a little fun and question that assumption 
 
so, yes, you're right it's not all about nurture and guess what it's also not all about nature... 
that was the point but 
oh what the hell... 
 
I guess people nowadays disagree on what degree each one plays... 
although there are still some who fall into the extremes 
 
now on your point about exclusion 
 
just because 2-3 women tested (not including his daughters)it does not make a gender-neutral world/environment 
 
may be we're missing each other here 
 
I'm not talking about exclusion in general, although some might argue this point, I'm talking about... does the gaming world make itself seem hostile (of course not all the times) to anyone...? (in this particular case gender) 
 
I used RPG's 'cause that's what we were talking about here 
I used them also because I have heard people say 
"well that's to be expected" 
when I say I mainly play RPG's 
(the response usually follows from an exclamation that I game--as in..oh...o.k. she plays RPG's as oppossed to FPS') 
 
if more women wanted to play RPG's then more would be playing RPG's gel? 
yes in a very if you add 2 to 1 you get 3 kindof way 
 
but the* question is why don't more women want to play RPG's? (or other games for that matter) 
*"the" as in what I think is important sure we'd have more if there were more playing but that seems to beg to ask the question I am asking here 
 
re: Pokemon 
 
no it's not a sexist game but my daughter had to fight tooth and nail to get involved in trading with other boys* 
 
she was told she could not be a part of this or that group 
 
now if I hadn't pushed her (telling her not to give up) and facilitated her (providing her with the resources to get more and more cards) she might have given up... 
 
how many other girls have already given up? 
how many parents of girls will actively push them to play videogames and trade cards? 
 
and no Jigglpuff isn't holding a big sword but Jiggly is holding a large phallic looking mic Just kidding...just kidding...Jigglypuff is cool as hell 
 
my favs: 
1)Psyduck 
2)JigglyPuff 
3)Vulpix 
 
*yes you're right if there where other girls doing this then she could have played with other girls... but, are other girls being pushed out before they can form groups and why must we have single-sexed groups? 
 
re:combat 
 
I still question this assumption that women have an innate desire against combat 
or more accurately that in males there is something innate about combat 
I think we all have it in us it's just that in some it is allowed to flourish and others learn to suppress this 
 
we'll have to agree to disagree 
 
My favorite part... 
 
Gel:As for whether you prefering boy games over girl games is not the norm, well hell yes it is not the norm. 
And if you go by the definition of the word Deviant then yes, if you make such a general statement then it is Deviant. 
Have you ever heard of the term 'Tom Boy'? 
 
whenever a women asks the question if gaming makes them a deviant 
someone always says yes 
 
my question is 
 
if this is the case 
why are men who do NOT game are not seen as deviants 
 
if you can't say that about men who don't game how can you say that about women who do...? 
 
and yes I have heard of the term "tom boy" 
it was in my piece and I have/had called myself one 
 
nice to know that my piece has spurred your questioning of my intelligence gel 
was that necessary? 
 
 
loba gets serious 
 
why are you so upset and on the offensive? 
did I put questions to you or Gary Gygax in such a way that would lead you to believe that I was attacking either of you? 
 
please show me where I was inconsiderate in the article gel... 
if I attacked you or Mr. Gygax anywhere in my post I want to make it clear it definitely wasn't intentional 
I'm sorry you took my piece as if it was an assult on you or your statements or what-have-you 
 
 
if it was about the swearing then read dav's post 
I'm sorry 
I have a sailor's mouth and 
I yam what I yam 
 
#$%!! at least I used asterisks 
 
 
Final note: 
for all of the times you jest gel 
you have taken this quite personally 
don't 
 
if you have taken this piece personally 
I think you should rethink all of the times you have seriously f****d with others 
don't you think they've taken it personally? 
 
loba's got nothing against you 
I'm only against arguments that focus only on differences in the world by using only biological answers and assumptions 
 
*I'm wiggling your earlobes* 
 
it will all be o.k. 
 
want a muffin?

But if Pokemon appealed equally to girls, there would be just as many girl traders. The fact that the people she wants to trade with are mostly/all boys only demonstrates this. There would be more girls playing if it weren't for the boys' understandably immature behavior, but that fact they wouldn't be able to exercise that kind of control if they weren't a majority to begin with.

by **Ace_of_Sevens** on Mon Oct 23, 2000 2:00 pm

Some American CRPGs do come fairly close to the table-top model. They'll let you build a character and have open-ended stories where you pick and choose your quests. Then there are ones where you've got a specific character and a specific story to adhere to. Then there are the Japanese ones, which are basically action-adventure games with RPG-stlye stats and sometimes a turn-based combat system.

by **Circe** on Mon Oct 23, 2000 2:41 pm

"we need to ask why don't the majority of women want to spend their time doing this? " 
 
My theory: RPGs, Video Games, Computers, Star Trek, etc. These are "nerd" things. Women especially are under pressure to please other people. That is, they, moreso than boys, think about social status, and being a nerd just ain't much status. That's why you don't see many nerd girls. 
 
--DavPilky

I love Star Trek! And, *NO*, Andromeda does not count. I don't care whose idea it was modelled for.

by **DavPilky** on Mon Oct 23, 2000 4:44 pm

But if Pokemon appealed equally to girls, there would be just as many girl traders. The fact that the people she wants to trade with are mostly/all boys only demonstrates this. There would be more girls playing if it weren't for the boys' understandably immature behavior, but that fact they wouldn't be able to exercise that kind of control if they weren't a majority to begin with.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree on this point. Girls would trade pokemon with other girls if there were other girls to trade with. 
 
--DavPilky

by **witchboy** on Mon Oct 23, 2000 5:26 pm

let me first state that i avidly play both crpg's (or whatever you want to call them) and paper rpg's. 
 
what some old school rpg people seem to fail to understand is this: some of us involved in the process of creating computer games are not content with merely re-creating traditional rpg's for the computer. that's not our goal at all. we're doing something different. many of us have our set of artistic 'principles' for use in reaching our goals. 
 
some of us are working on increasingly sophisticated environmental simulations. some of the elements of old rpg's are sometimes useful. but many of us hope that, in the near future, gamers have the option of representing 'their character' in more complex, elegant ways besides saying, '15 strength' or whatever. numbers are fine, but some of us hope that players come to represent characters by how they interact with the environment and with other characters. 
 
and btw it *is* possible to act in a computer game in a way that was not planned for by the designer. unforeseen occurences and player strategies 'emerge' all the time in games like thief, system shock or deus ex. emergent behavior is an increasingly common goal in high end computer games. 
 
--witchboy 
lead designer of deus ex 
director of deus ex 2

by **Gel214th** on Mon Oct 23, 2000 5:52 pm

"In a single player game, Building,Business, and politics really can't come into play, unless the game includes a solid single player quest portion as well as some overwhelming reason to build a castle. Although it would be QUITE QUITE interesting!! Use monies earned to build a castle somewhere..hire peasents..guards etc. etc." 
 
Actually, Gel, I can't help but remember a game where that was the whole point. I think it was called "Castles". The whole idea was to do what some English king did, and build a series of fortresses to subdue those rebellious celts. You had to manage your money and hire carpenters, stone masons, diggers, etc, plus troops to defend your building site from raids. And of course, you were free to design your castle as you saw fit, hopefully to also take advantage of terrain and stuff. 
 
When each castle was complete, you'd get an all-out assault. More likely than not, it DID get breached, but that's ok as long as your soldiers still won. If your troops could kill the last enemy soldier before the castle was TOTALLY razed, you won. If you ran out of soldiers first, tough luck. 
 
Now it wasn't exactly an RP game, but you did have some RP elements. E.g., diplomacy, complaints, dispensing judgement, crusades and other military stuff happening elsewhere, etc. Each choice you made could make you more popular with a faction (church, peasants, nobles, Celts, army), but that could sometimes come at the expense of alienating everyone else. Or it could just make you unpopular with everyone. 
 
They also had a sequel, where the diplomacy and stuff were slightly better done. Basically, now you were not the king this time. You were a noble. The king was dead, and everyone wanted the throne. By any means. You could also make aliances and stuff with the other nobles, and the church's opinion mattered for everyone else. (Unless you were already too strong, you didn't want the Pope to proclaim you as THE anti-christ, and have everyone start a jolly good crusade against you.)

Castles you say? 
Who made it? can you point me to a review or anything? :-)

I don't think I've heard of it. The castles I know is a really old game with some 16 bit graphics and some catapults firing stones at..well..castles. 
 
*ahem* 
 
=)

by **Gary Gygax** on Mon Oct 23, 2000 5:57 pm

let me first state that i avidly play both crpg's (or whatever you want to call them) and paper rpg's. 
 
what some old school rpg people seem to fail to understand is this: some of us involved in the process of creating computer games are not content with merely re-creating traditional rpg's for the computer. that's not our goal at all. we're doing something different. many of us have our set of artistic 'principles' for use in reaching our goals. 
 
some of us are working on increasingly sophisticated environmental simulations. some of the elements of old rpg's are sometimes useful. but many of us hope that, in the near future, gamers have the option of representing 'their character' in more complex, elegant ways besides saying, '15 strength' or whatever. numbers are fine, but some of us hope that players come to represent characters by how they interact with the environment and with other characters. 
 
and btw it *is* possible to act in a computer game in a way that was not planned for by the designer. unforeseen occurences and player strategies 'emerge' all the time in games like thief, system shock or deus ex. emergent behavior is an increasingly common goal in high end computer games. 
 
--witchboy 
lead designer of deus ex 
director of deus ex 2

Sure, Witchboy... 
 
...and I agree with a number of the things you state. Fact is I have currently some commitments to doing computer games. 
 
One thing remains: To whom does the player roleplay in a "CRPG". the answer is, nobody, so until that changes, the game on the computer isn't actually one of role-playing, eh? 
 
Ciao, 
Gary

by **Gel214th** on Mon Oct 23, 2000 6:00 pm

Thanks for taking the time to post on the site, Mr. Gygax. I think your analysis of pen and paper's evolution to a niche comparable to that of today's live theater is dead-on. If I ever <a href="http://www.womengamers.com/articles/rpg.html">revisit this subject</a>, I might like to pilfer it, with all due credit, of course. 
 
Respectfully, 
 
Banshee

Hey! 
thats her thats her! 
 
She's the one I was telling you about! 
Little Miss Manners. 
She uses words like pilfer and respectfully and stuff. 
0_0 
 
*smiles and chuckles nervously at banshee* 
*runs*

by **Gary Gygax** on Mon Oct 23, 2000 6:12 pm

I'm curious, which fantasy authors are your favorites, If any? 
 
Anyways, my main thoughts center around newbie RPG players (me being one of them). Having grown up in a right wing christian religious household, I was one of the unfortunate few growing up that was NOT allowed to even play D&D. I wonder what it is about D&D that gets some people in such a religious tizzy? So how does someone get into PnP RPG's without having ever played? The key is the DM, and If you don't know one, what the heck are up supposed to do? 
 
This brings up my thoughts on CRPG's. As I said, I'm a newbie to RPG's (PnP and CRPG's alike) so I cannot draw profound conclusions about either. However, with a CRPG the DM is built into the computer, thereby not requiring me to "find" a DM to play with. Or, in the future, finding a DM to play with in a CRPG would be far easier for someone via the Internet. So how does a newbie get into the PnP RPG arena?

Hi, Strider! 
 
I get asked about fav authors in imaginative literature often. I've read thousands of workd from the 1940s and 50s pulp zzines I once collected on to the current time. In general I have a distinct proclivity for the earlier stuff, although anything JAck Vance writes is tops with me. Bradbury's short stories are golden. Recently I'm reading alternate "histories" in SF, the Diskworld novels are before me even now;-} 
 
Exactly on target about needing a GM for a RPG, although I get a few emails where the writer states that the trick was learned by reading the work, then grabbing some friends and having at it--usually with the disclaimer that it was "done wrong"... 
 
Playing a "Crpg" gives you a good insight into what the PnP game play is all about. Only in the latter you get to relate to real people, put in your own ideas, and play a part in things as a distinct personality that you develop through interaction with the other platers' characters, the environment of the campaign. Likely something online can be found--a bit less personal that in in-person group session, but passable. Otherwise, seek a contact at a game shop--or drop in my place here in Lake Geneva, WI, of a Thursday night and play LEJENDARY ADVENTURE wwith us (^_^). 
 
Ciao, 
Gary

by **Gary Gygax** on Mon Oct 23, 2000 6:20 pm

With one GM and one Player, are dice necessary to resolve conflicts? If push comes to shove(and it never has for me and my usual GM) you can flip a coin. In any case, the difference between improv acting and RPG is a thin line. A set of rules is surely helpful, and in many cases can add to the fun, but you can get by without them, and you're still Role Playing in a Game. 
 
--DavPilky

Well, Compadre... 
 
I surely disagree about the need for random chance in the RPG! Theater is one thing, creating verisimilitude in a RPG is quite another. Players deserve the dignity of being able to, as much as possible, direct the actions AND FATE of their characters. As in real life, things that are unexpected, unlikely, unintended too happen. how else can the full scope of chance be reflected save through probability statements and checks against them? 
 
Surely no GM should direct ther fate of players' game personas by whim, as if they were mere puppets in his or her play. Thus, what other practical means for dealing with all random-chance events, from combat to being discovered or not, exists save for random number generation against a set determinant? 
 
While chess is a game of skill--with chance coming in only in regards to the state of each player's mind and emotions at the time, some change outside interference perhaps, the RPG game form is more complex in regards variables in what happens when something moves, shall we say... 
 
Cheerio, 
Gary

by **Gary Gygax** on Mon Oct 23, 2000 6:23 pm

Thanks for taking the time to post on the site, Mr. Gygax. I think your analysis of pen and paper's evolution to a niche comparable to that of today's live theater is dead-on. If I ever <a href="http://www.womengamers.com/articles/rpg.html">revisit this subject</a>, I might like to pilfer it, with all due credit, of course. 
 
Respectfully, 
 
Banshee

Banshee, 
 
Thanks, and I'll gladly give you permission--do so now in fact:) If you need additional input just email me personally. My email link is on my website, http://www.gygax.com. 
 
Ciao, 
Gary

by **witchboy** on Mon Oct 23, 2000 6:25 pm

Sure, Witchboy... 
 
...and I agree with a number of the things you state. Fact is I have currently some commitments to doing computer games. 
 
One thing remains: To whom does the player roleplay in a "CRPG". the answer is, nobody, so until that changes, the game on the computer isn't actually one of role-playing, eh? 
 
Ciao, 
Gary

http://www.stormtroopers.com/witchboy/a ... part.shtml

by **Gary Gygax** on Mon Oct 23, 2000 6:33 pm

There is a distinct shortage of female input in the survey to date. Out of some 240 responses to date, only 5% are from women RPGers. 
 
If anyone hereon, female or male, is interested in rating the 16 elememnts I believe are a part of the general RPG (not just the FRPG), please take a moment when online to visit my website, The survey form is founf on a link near the bottom of the homepage. 
 
The URL is: http://www.gygax.com 
 
Someone called my attention to a typo on the form. It says "lace an X here is you are a female". The chap thought I was being sexist, clearly doesn't know me and my propensity for making lots of those kinds of mistakes. ever the fate of a Columbus Method typist who is perpetually hurrying to get to the next thing demanding attention. Anyway, I've asked my webmaster to fix it. If it's stil;l there, blame him! 
 
The DRAGON Magazine/WotC folks will be picking up the survey soon, so the base will expand markedly early next year. Meantime, I hope to get a meningful number of responces to my separate poll so as to be able to compare and contrast those that Wizards compiles. 
 
Appreciate your input, should you care to give same:) 
 
Adios, 
Gary

by **Ace_of_Sevens** on Mon Oct 23, 2000 6:41 pm

Sure, Witchboy... 
 
...and I agree with a number of the things you state. Fact is I have currently some commitments to doing computer games. 
 
One thing remains: To whom does the player roleplay in a "CRPG". the answer is, nobody, so until that changes, the game on the computer isn't actually one of role-playing, eh? 
 
Ciao, 
Gary

I'd say the answer is "to the game's designer(s)." However, this doesn't allow nearly the depth of interaction sitting at the same table does, so your point is still quite valid.

by **Gel214th** on Mon Oct 23, 2000 6:45 pm

let me first state that i avidly play both crpg's (or whatever you want to call them) and paper rpg's. 
 
what some old school rpg people seem to fail to understand is this: some of us involved in the process of creating computer games are not content with merely re-creating traditional rpg's for the computer. that's not our goal at all. we're doing something different. many of us have our set of artistic 'principles' for use in reaching our goals. 
 
some of us are working on increasingly sophisticated environmental simulations. some of the elements of old rpg's are sometimes useful. but many of us hope that, in the near future, gamers have the option of representing 'their character' in more complex, elegant ways besides saying, '15 strength' or whatever. numbers are fine, but some of us hope that players come to represent characters by how they interact with the environment and with other characters. 
 
and btw it *is* possible to act in a computer game in a way that was not planned for by the designer. unforeseen occurences and player strategies 'emerge' all the time in games like thief, system shock or deus ex. emergent behavior is an increasingly common goal in high end computer games. 
 
--witchboy 
lead designer of deus ex 
director of deus ex 2

but.. 
 
I think the the nearest we are going to come to Roleplaying games that embody the full gamut of the roleplaying experience, is with titles such as Neverwinter Nights, where a world can be created..a world that has interaction, that has rules for whats up and what's down embedded within it, but that also allows a human to run the world, to run the adventure and fulfill those portions and that role that the computer just can't handle. 
 
In that environment you roleplay with other people, or with another person. And the computer facilitates the visual and sensory aspects of the experience, and the more mundane book keeping etc. 
 
The roleplaying genre came out of the 'old-school'. 
It is what it is..taking the role of a character within an environment and progressing..improving the character and the environment (or destroying it etc.) as one goes along, usually working toward some singular goal. That *IS* a Roleplaying Game. 
 
If a developer is doing something new, then that's fantastic..but it is just that:something new that uses elements of the RPG genre as defined years ago,not necessarily embodying all the factors of a roleplaying game. 
 
I just don't think that a computer AI can truly recreate the complete roleplaying experience, or that it would be cost effective to even try to do that. 
 
Computer RPGS that rely on the computer to drive the storyline,will always represent a Subset:scaled back, and scaled down. 
 
There will always be tradeoffs between what a developer wants to do, what the technology CAN do, what their finances and deadlines dictate...and what the Censors will allow ;-P 
 
That said, Deus Ex has come the closest to capturing the essence of an RPG on the computer. 
Congratulations Witchboy. 
I enjoyed playing the game you helped design more than any other, but I know you probably hear that so much that you're sick of it by now 
 
;-P 
*waves*

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